Almost forty years ago, a little band from Texas kickstarted progressive metal by injecting a healthy dose of Rush into thrash metal, wickedly fast and endlessly technical. I recently took a retrospective dive into their two classic 80s albums here (Energetic Disassembly) and here (Control and Resistance) (be sure to check out their 2016 EP, too!). Punishingly technical and at breakneck pace, the early WatchTower albums were in a league of their own, and the world had never heard riffs nor drumming like them—all while the band were teenagers. In celebration of prog metal and its upcoming fortieth birthday, we reached out to Jason McMaster (vocals), Doug Keyser (bass), Rick Colaluca (drums), and Ron Jarzombek (guitars) to ask all the burning questions we could come up with. Speaking with such a legendary group has been amazing, so without further ado, here’s a glance into WatchTower told by the maestros themselves.
Hi guys! It’s truly an honor to be speaking with such legends of prog! To get us started, how did you experience the 80s metal scene at large as a young band playing at the same time as Slayer, Celtic Frost, Venom, and Death? I figure that you have better insight than anybody! What are some of your favorite memories from the olden days of metal?
Jason: Our young minds were overblown with excitement, as we somehow got the call for the opening slots for a lot of the up and coming groundbreaking bands. Celtic Frost, Voivod, Trouble, King Diamond, Anthrax and more. We were having a blast. We just did our thing and then loaded out and enjoyed witnessing bands that rose to staggering heights throughout the years. Fun times for sure.
Ron: I remember lots of gigs with WatchTower, Helstar and S. A. Slayer. I was in S. A. Slayer at this time. We had the infamous Slayer vs. Slayer gig in San Antonio. That was probably the highlight for me.
Doug: For sure, some of our mid-1980s shows in Texas at long-gone but iconic venues like the Ritz in Austin and the Cameo in San Antonio are great memories. Going back to the beginning, we had a blast playing local parties, with a mix of some of our very early original songs and a lot of cover tunes by Rush, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Saxon, Raven and all of the incredible bands from that era.
I’ve seen you refer to your vocals as “pissed off Geddy Lee” before: were Rush a big influence on you, and, if so, what’s your favorite Rush album? Which other progressive bands inspired you to break the boundaries of metal at that point in 1984/85?
Jason: I love the first six records by Rush; 2112 might be my “go to” Rush record, but the things they were doing that were even just a bit more ‘rock n roll’ I still enjoy to this day. By the time they reached Moving Pictures, another great record that jumped the line between prog metal and radio friendly rock, I was already starting to get into weirder and heavier metal. By the time 1983 came, it was more about Euro metal and, above all, Bay Area thrash. The new wave of British Heavy metal encouraged me to stick to the rock n roll vibe in my voice, but also to go beyond and try things. Venom and then Raven, with guttural punk throaty stuff and then super high twisted screeching, I tried to mix.
Ron: Rush is my favorite band of all time. Just like Jason, the first albums all the way up to Moving Pictures. Signals had a bit too much keyboards, so that’s when I drifted off. My favorite Rush albums are 2112, All The World’s A Stage, A Farewell To Kings and Hemispheres. Rush was also the band that introduced me to writing music with Morse Code (“YYZ”) which led to writing with all the alphabet, phone numbers, names, street addresses, etc… and later all 12 notes (12-tone). So that all pretty much destroyed my way of musically thinking LOL. I also listened to Al Di Meola quite a bit.
Doug: Rush was definitely the biggest influence for me. I remember listening to A Farewell to Kings for the first time and it was life-changing, pretty much what made me start playing. The period between All The World’s A Stage through Exit…Stage Left was just unmatched, an incredible band at the top of their game. I’d probably choose Hemispheres as my all-time favorite album. Some other progressive bands like King Crimson, UK, and the Bill Bruford solo albums with Jeff Berlin were also influential.
I have also seen critics hate your “pissed off Geddy Lee” vocals. Have any creative insults been directed at Watchtower? And are there any creative compliments that have stayed with you?
Jason: The “insults” were rather expected. I was barely singing at that early point, it took a bit to figure out how to do what I was trying to do with any real power. So, then to get spit at for how crazy I wanted my vocals to be with the crazy riffs I was writing melodies over, I took it with a grain of salt. I still listen to John from Raven and lots of old Geddy Lee. It’s wild how those guys just took what Plant, and Halford and Ian Gillan and the like, to a crazy psychotic new level. So, if I got thrown out, maybe they dealt with some haters, too.Ron: That all goes with the territory. Do something that’s not too common and you get crucified for it. Since I love Geddy’s voice, anybody who says Jason sounds like a pissed off Geddy, I’d take that as a compliment. I remember the first time I heard Jason’s vocals on the Energetic Disassembly songs, I pictured this demented looking gigantic rat with humongous balls screaming his ass off while holding a microphone. And yes, that’s a compliment. I remember some magazine reviews of WatchTower mentioned that we couldn’t write songs, that it was just a bunch of notes. I guess since we didn’t have common structures for songs, they had a hard time grabbing on to something.
Doug: It definitely seemed to be a “love it or hate it” thing. There are a couple of one-star reviews of Control and Resistance on Amazon that are pretty funny. I think one of them said something like, with that album progressive metal had hit an evolutionary dead-end like a two-headed fish, LOL.
WatchTower’s influence has been instrumental to the formation of the progressive metal world, inspiring big names such as Dream Theater, Symphony X, Cynic, Atheist, and Devin Townsend and continuing to inspire new bands. How does it feel to look upon an entire genre and hear your influence on its development?
Jason: That part of the story is, was, completely unexpected. Discovered early by a few folks, Chuck Schuldiner, Gene Hoglan, Tom Warrior and Mike Portnoy, who are some of my heroes who truly have helped create and keep alive the ideas of keeping heavy music/ loud rock music from becoming stagnant, they all carry or carried the flag for us. Mind blown again. We were just kids.
Ron: It’s really cool for me when I see so many kids on youtube playing songs that I’ve written and/or recorded, whether it’s songs by WatchTower, Blotted Science, Spastic Ink or solo material. I also totally dig it when a younger band comes to town and I sometimes end up on their guest list and I get to hang out with these kids.
Doug: It’s not at all anything we could have expected when we were writing those songs!
Where’d the band name come from? It’s snappy and memorable.
Jason: I believe Doug came up with that, if memory serves me correct. I love it. There is the idea of an observation post, and the reports cannot always be good. Usually the lyrics and music were all together attempts to destroy mediocrity. It also had the message that art should be fun and wild and not just a painting of some fruit in a bowl.
Doug: I saw the word watchtower in a book at school, and it just kind of stuck in my head, and when we needed a name it just fell into place. It’s a little unusual but it goes along with the idea that even in the early days we observed and wrote about things going on in the world.
Do you prefer hyper-technical music in your daily listening as a contrast to what you perform yourself, and/or do you prefer playing it? Who do you all listen to regularly?
Jason: I listen to everything, and then again, I listen to nothing. Music is a life for me that never ends. So, after working on music, teaching music, or mixing, etc, I do not want to hear much. I have to change gears often. So, to be truthful, I listen to lots of classic rock. Maybe yacht rock.
Ron: Same here. I listen to all sorts of things. Since I teach guitar, I have to learn and play all different kinds of music. Some of the newer/current guitarists and bands are doing some really creative things, I just wish there was more focus on bands rather than all of these individual accolades, especially with guitarists. I recently saw Entheos live and they blew my socks off.
Doug: I’m all over the place with the music I listen to. There are good songwriters and good musicians in every genre and it just depends on whatever mood I’m in. Sometimes it’s stuff I grew up with like Rush, sometimes it’s newer bands like Knower.
Being in and out of a band for decades I’m sure you’ve accumulated a handful of stories from the studio and on the road: any favorites?
Jason: Well, stories, I don’t know where to start, or how interesting they would be, and another way to say that would be, wait for my book! I have learned about how to perform, record and write and teach music, from all of my experiences. Getting to work with some of the people I looked up to growing up, has been a cool trip and an honor.
Ron: That’s a loaded question but I guess a highlight (lowlight) for me was on the WatchTower European tour in ’90 we had a few gigs where we played in our underwear. The gig in Rotterdam is online. Another lowlight was my knee going out of place twice at my 3rd WatchTower gig.
Doug: A particular show that stands out for me was a show we played in Dortmund, Germany as we were finishing up recording Control and Resistance in Berlin. It seemed like everyone we met had driven a long distance to see us, mostly only knowing our music from the tape-trading scene. It was really mind-blowing to us that anyone even knew who we were, just some random band from Texas that had never been overseas before.
You guys have been a band for quite a while, and prog metal’s fanbase is more diverse than it’s ever been thanks to the internet. How do you view prog metal’s developments over the years—from Dream Theater to djent to whatever Polyphia’s doing, the genre has undoubtedly diversified. How do you view the development of progressive metal and of music in general?
Jason: Honestly, I feel a bit out of touch. Polyphia is incredible, and the fact that they came from something…what was that? I feel that the most barbaric thrash, or the sludgiest dirge metal, comes from something else. When it was created by a small group of players coming together to make noises that fit together so well is freaky and beautiful. So, It has to be my honest answer, that mind bending specifics of the genre, of what mean progressive, I am at a loss these days. Meaning, I just cannot keep up with the proggers!
Ron: Well, it’s definitely changing. I guess that would happen over a number of decades. Again, due to the internet I think there’s too much individualism happening. Some of these top players on the net aren’t even in bands, and that’s what it used to be all about.
Doug: Like Jason, I’m probably a little out of touch with all the latest hot prog bands, but I know I’ve heard some pretty crazy and impressive music over the years. There are some phenomenal young musicians and bands in the scene.
This one’s for Ron, but I’m curious what his musical background is to perform how he did in 1989 on Control and Resistance and then a few years later on legendary releases with Spastic Ink and Blotted Science. I’d also love to hear from the man himself if he can elaborate on how he has such a unique style in metal: any song with Ron is instantly recognizable. What’s the secret behind the tone? I also know he builds his own guitars: does he view himself as a tinkerer of a guitarist? What’s your process with regards to building your own instruments?
Ron: Most of the stuff that I’ve written over the past few decades has been focused around writing with 12 note systems. I even have a few apps out that set up rows and progressions using all 12 notes and create backing tracks. I’m writing a book right now on my 12-note technique writing, hopefully done by the end of the year. As far as building my own guitars, I just got tired of playing the same shaped guitars that too many players play, and came up with my own design and specs. Would be cool to have my own line of guitars one of these days, but no sign of that as of yet.
You all were not only the most technical and progressive metal ever at the point of your debut, and you were also mostly teenagers! Did Watchtower have aspirations/expectations on being career musicians or was your success a surprise?
Jason: It is [not] always easy to recall our plan, because I do not remember having one at all. Speaking for myself, I was so happy to just play loud music with people I adored, who were as happy as I was just rehearsing the same songs over and over. It did not even matter if it was a cover song, or an older original piece, or something we had just come up with. Just to be creating sound, creating something from nothing, by banging on wood and wire, was and still is, the attraction.
Ron: I think I’ve always wanted to be a career musician, but more of an artist who creates releases based on concepts, and evolving from album to album. That’s mostly due to Rush, who with every album went in a different direction. Spastic Ink was set up to have more albums based on the ‘Ink Complete’ and ‘Ink Compatible’ concept. Blotted Science was also set up with ‘The Machinations Of Dementia’ and ‘The Animation Of Entomology’. Too bad both projects lasted only two albums. I had so many more ideas for concepts that just never happened.
Doug: Honestly, I don’t think we thought super far ahead as teenagers, but it just seemed like something we’d keep doing since it was such a big part of our lives.
Rick: I can’t say I ever really had a plan, beyond playing more gigs and keeping the momentum going as much as possible. Being a “path of least resistance” (pun intended) kind of person, and without any specific goals for the band or for myself musically, I never really had any big dreams. Just plugging away and enjoying the experience was enough. As I got older I realized that I wasn’t driven to become a career musician, being more of a dabbler than a serious student of the art.
How early did each of you pick up your chosen instruments given your abundant skill at such an early age?
Jason: I got my first bass guitar at age 12. As early as age 9, I was figuring out some scales on an old stand up piano. I never applied much of my discovery, until much later. I am still discovering.
Ron: My first instrument was piano, which I took up in 2nd grade. I switched to guitar a few years later when some football friends said that guitar was a much cooler instrument. My mom was kinda pissed about it, but she did get me a Les Paul and a practice amp. I had a few guitar lessons playing ‘Old Grey Goose’ and ‘Twinkle Twinkle Little Star’, but dropped them and started figuring out KISS songs.
Doug: My first instrument was violin which I played for a couple of years in middle school orchestra, but I wasn’t really serious about it. I started playing guitar around 8th or 9th grade and just jammed with other kids in my neighborhood. I knew Rick from those circles. When we met Billy [Billy White, guitarist from 1982-86], the original plan was to have Billy and me switching off between guitar and bass. But once I started learning a few bass lines, I immediately gravitated towards that instrument and realized my musical brain was more suited to bass, so Billy became our full-time guitarist, LOL.
Rick: I joined my 6th grade school band as a means to get out of class one day, and when the band director asked each of us what instrument we wanted to play, I didn’t have a clue, so I blurted out “drums”. Turned out I kinda had a knack for it, so I kept going with it throughout middle and high school. It wasn’t until I heard “Cygnus X-1” when I was a freshman in high school that I really got excited about playing drums. It was the early Peart influence that set the initial direction of my style.
For Rick and Doug, how did your approach to songwriting changed between Energetic Disassembly and Control and Resistance? And then—probably more substantially—how did your songwriting develop over the decades? When you look back at the first two albums, is there anything you wish you’d done differently (we wouldn’t change a thing!)?
Doug: Some of the songs that ended up on Control and Resistance were written even before we recorded Energetic Disassembly, but the batch of songs on Energetic were from a slightly earlier period of our songwriting and seemed to fit together. There were a lot of songs from before the Energetic era that didn’t make the cut and were only recorded as demos or not at all. Many were part of our live setlist after we wrote them but eventually dropped off for newer songs that we liked more. When Ron joined the band, he was driving up to Austin from San Antonio so we had to be a little more efficient with writing, although there was quite a bit of bouncing ideas off each other. Probably the thing I would go back and change if a time machine existed would be the sound production on both records.
Rick: On Energetic, for me it was about playing fast and aggressive all the time, with lots of Peart style fills. That evolved somewhat as we continued writing for Control. I became less interested in just slamming out fast stuff, and more interested in writing and playing parts that had unique interplay with the rest of the instruments as well as leaving more space. In hindsight I wish that I had been more discriminating in the studio on both recordings. I really dislike recording so if it was half-ass decent I’d let it go just so I could move on to the next song. I guess you could say I’m an imperfectionist.
There seems to be some discrepancy with the release date of Energetic Disassembly, and it’s important, not only because we’re nerds about cataloging release dates, but also because there’s a friendly rivalry between you and Fates Warning over having the “first” ever prog metal album. I’ve heard November 84, February 85, and November 85. Which is the real one?
Jason: I recall being in the studio (Cedar Creek, South Austin, TX) finishing up things in Nov. of 1984 and by October we were having a release party. Then I see it listed as a January 1985 official release because that is when our distributors had received the product and had put it in line at stores. November 1984 sounds a little bit early for us to call it an official release. We did have a cassette tape we shipped out all over the place with MELTDOWN and TYRANTS IN DISTRESS on it, because those were recorded first and in a different studio, engineered and mixed by Kerry Krafton. That is where the Nov. ‘84 timeline comes in.
You haven’t rested on your laurels and have been busy in various projects since the 80s. What are some of your favorites? I know several of us here particularly love Blotted Science and Howling Sycamore. Do these bands speak to a desire to play several styles of music? Does your Watchtower experience come out when composing for other projects?
Jason: I make it no secret that my earliest years in WatchTower were like school for me, as a full musician, a writer, a composer, all of it. All of it started with those guys. I find that composing and working with other artists, collaborations, has also shown me there is not one way to write a song. Any style of song, I can learn something. These guys showed me how to appreciate that part of music. And. I loved working with Davide Tiso and HOWLING SYCAMORE, a total blast singing those incredible songs. Davide let me just soar all over, anything I wanted to sing melody wise. His music and lyrics were a breath of fresh air for music. And for myself.
Ron: I do get involved in other projects, but they all pretty much center around proggy/tech rock/metal. Blotted Science was different for me because I wanted to get a lot heavier (blastbeats, drop A tuning, etc…) but Spastic Ink and my solo material is similar to WatchTower musically, it’s just more structured. When I write with WatchTower it’s different than other projects because it’s usually face to face bouncing ideas off of Doug and Rick, so musically everybody makes contributions whereas with Blotted Science it’s all long distance writing via emails and mp3s. It’s collaborative but just not the same as live interaction. The Blotted Science guys were never in the same room until 8 months after Machinations was released. I am currently working on another solo CD, which is a follow-up to my 2nd solo CD Solitarily Speaking Of Theoretical Confinement.
Doug: After WatchTower went into hiatus after Control and Resistance, I was asked to join a funk/rock/rap band called Retarted Elf that traveled around the region and had a decent following. It was a completely different style of music, but when I started writing with them, there were certainly some things that carried over from my experiences with WatchTower.
Our site’s focus is underground progressive metal—who are some smaller bands you want to shout out? Friends, bands in the local scene, people who have opened for you, etc! We (and our readers) want them all!
Jason: I have not done a whole lot with these guys, as far as playing shows, I guested on a song on one of their releases, and would like to mention VESPERIAN SORROW. I do not know what kind of music it really is, but it is over the top. It skips over lots of genres, from symphonic proggy death metal [to] soundtrack music, with incredible musicianship that holds up against anyone. They are from around here in central Texas. Please look them up.
Ron: I don’t really have a Spotify and Apple account so I only hear what is on the net while I’m browsing around, or what students may bring in. As I mentioned before, most of what I see online is lots of guitarists doing their own thing, and not a lot of them are in bands.
Doug: I’m a little out of touch with who are the latest hot bands, but I know I hear some pretty great stuff come up randomly through the algorithm on my music app.
Stick with me for a hypothetical. You’re packing your luggage to leave home for a tour from Texas, and you see a scorpion in your luggage. What are you doing? (I’m begging for advice as this recently happened to me in Tucson, and I haven’t opened my luggage since).
Jason: Immediately spot the creature, use a handheld vacuum cleaner to suck up the creature. It should not harm the creature too badly, then empty the chamber outside, a ways from your house.
Ron: I’d start singing ‘Rock You Like A Hurricane’ and see if it responds. If it’s a beetle, I usually sing “She Loves You yeah, yeah, yeah.” Yes, that has happened before. No it didn’t respond.
Doug: Scorpion venom is one of the most valuable and expensive liquids on the planet, but I don’t think I’d be able to figure out how to extract it safely. Instead, I’d name the scorpion Uli.
Rick: Brush it away and let it go. Or stomp on it. I live in a rural environment and have been stung by scorpions many times, it’s a non event. Less painful than a fire ant bite.
Finally, when is Concepts of Math, Book II, are you doing the classic prog trope of titling a suite Part 1 and leaving out its sequel? ;).
I’m sure you’ve heard about the WatchTower album Mathematics that never happened. Well, that Concepts of Math EP is 5 of the 11 songs that were supposed to be on the full album. Will we ever get those last 6 songs recorded? Probably not. But if we ever did, I’d think that we’d put all 11 songs together as they were planned, with each first letter of each song title spelling out MATHEMATICS. Releasing a book 2 or part 2 just destroys the whole concept.
Our thanks to Jason, Ron, Doug, and Rick for their time. All of us here at the Subway look forward to future projects of yours, WatchTower or otherwise!
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